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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Patricia Louise Butler 
April 25, 1992 
Cassette 2, Side 1 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:01 
Tape two, Washington Women's Heritage Project. Today's date is April 25, 1992, my name is 
Antoinette Johnson, I'm the interviewer, the interviewee is Patricia Louise Butler, and the place 
that we will be interviewing is Miss Butler's home. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:21 
[Tape stops and starts mid-sentence]-- south to see a grandmother, and he went in the service. 
And I caught up with Jerome when he was coming back.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:31 
So Leela Oaks was the-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:33 
But he didn't marry her. He married somebody else in Texas while he was in the service. And 
Leela--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:34 
For how long? They got a divorce? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:45 
They got a divorce because when he came back up here and met me, he was telling me he wasn't 
going to ever get married again. It's really-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:53 
They weren't married too long, though, right?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:54 
They weren't married very long. Jerome didn't understand her understanding at all. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:03 
So you, when you were in school, would, you were-- Was he the only guy that you had went out 
with?  
 
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Patricia Louise Butler  01:09 
I hadn't gone out with him. I just saw something I liked-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:12 
[?You just liked him then?]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:13 
Yeah. I think I was supposed to go to the senior prom with Jerome, and I went to the junior prom 
with somebody else, upperclassmen, because I think I was still-- was I a sophomore? I wanted to 
get to all three proms, all three years, but. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:15 
How'd you feel about teenage pregnancy back then? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:20 
Say, what?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:23 
Because I know they had it. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:37 
They had it, but you went home or somewhere to have that baby. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:41 
You didn't stay at school? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:43 
No, there was one girl that did, and her mother had eight children, and I think she has six or 
eight. But the Sims family, she stayed and she finished that year out. But usually they ask you to 
leave school if you were pregnant and showing. You're grown, you're not no high school kid 
when you're having a baby. I think-- And a couple white kids came back. Where, I mean, girls 
had them, but they'd go to places like Good Shepherd, leave home, put the child up for adoption. 
Most black kids usually kept the kids and the family would raise--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:23 
Did you see any of that? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:26 
Did I see them--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:27 
See any pregnant?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:37 
--Yeah, there was two, two pregnants. The Sims girl was one, and she stayed to the end of that 
year, and somebody else had a baby. And you know, there was talk of others, but usually they 
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went to visit somewhere, came back, and then these children were raised by somebody else, a 
grandparent, extended family. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:50 
How did that affect you as far as wanting kids or not? Not having kids or having kids? Or sex? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  03:01 
You know, my problem was I was too busy. I was busy. I'm trying to figure out, I mean-- 
Because, I mean, I had a crush on Jerome when I saw him as the yell leader and we went roller 
skating after that. And I had a crush on this fellow that looked like--Who used to play the piano? 
Liberace, to me, he was a black Liberace, and the boy could smile, my Lord, he was a pretty 
thing. And then, you know, leave that and go home, go look at the football game. And besides, 
Arthur Martin was carrying the football across the line. I mean, I just went in and out of these 
things every few minutes, you know? But I still liked Jerome. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  03:47 
What, what year did you go into 10th grade?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  03:52 
What year? I graduated in 1956.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:00 
So-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  04:01 
'54?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:02 
Yes. So what was going on-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  03:58 
[Inaudible] was just [?four years old?]. And she looked just like that, you see, because you had 
used to part your hair down the middle, two, four, six, eight. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:21 
So what was going on with the movements as far as like Martin Luther King, and did any of that 
going on affect-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  04:30 
You know what? I was sitting in the class the other day, and I realized, I came up during a 
wonderful era. I remember tearing up paper for the end of the Civil War. I remember that people 
used to have potato salad and pig feet and something else when Joe Lewis would box, I mean, 
New York would make more noise than a little bit. I remember, what was I doing when Mar-- I 
was in high school when Rosa Parks did all this on the bus, and everybody was going to NAACP 
back then, anybody that was somebody. But I just remember it happened, I remember seeing it in 
Life Magazine. And now that was something we talked a lot about, I remember talking to 
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Mildred about it and how she felt about it. And then she told me about her being able to type 100 
words a minute and whistle Star Spangled Banner. I think I learned a lot about-- Mildred did 
more of that conversing about how things were to interact and be the first black school-- to be the 
first black secretary, and working in the Empire State Building.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  05:48 
Was she kind of a mentor to you?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  05:50 
She's my godmother, so I guess so, yeah.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  05:56 
Who would you go to for advice? About anything. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  06:01 
Honey, I don't know. Oh, Mrs. Brown. When you talk about advice, to know that you're going to 
someone about advice, Mrs. Brown, Mozell Glasper, Mrs. Glasper, because Mozell's name now 
is Brown, but I used to hang out with her, and she lived in the 800 block on 21st-- 29th Avenue. 
Well, I had some friends, but you know, now that I think about it, I had them mostly from the 
church. Not to associate from school, but I went to school with them, but the girls I sang in the 
choir with, I think, were a tighter network. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  06:49 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  06:50 
But I wasn't one to loan and borrow clothes, I just didn't care for that. And, but Mrs. Glasper 
used to talk to us girls a lot. And her husband was like the deacon, and she was a deaconess, and, 
because we went to the People's Institutional Baptist Church. People's Institutional Baptist 
Church had men in the choir, young men in the choir, and Mount Zion had young men in the 
choir, including [?Jerome?]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  07:29 
Did y'all take church real seriously? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:31 
Sure, girl. Have to get to go to church so you can go to the three o'clock service in Tacoma. 
That's right, sing in the choir so you can get about this-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  07:38 
Uh-huh. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:38 
--because you know, they always transported the choir. Went right along with the deacons and 
the deaconess. Of course, you had a chaperone, go home and tell them, "Well, the deacons and 
the deaconesses." "Oh, that's fine." You could go.  
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Antoinette Johnson  07:53 
So most, most of your-- You think most of your social life was centered around the church?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:59 
The church? Mm-hmm, I think so. And then you kind of branch out from there.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:04 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:07 
Well see, if you sang in the Seattle choir, and they have one of those-- What do you call these 
things on the week, when they go for every, a revival? Well, shoot, all the churches going over, 
three o'clock on Sunday, Mount Zion, People's Institutional and, you know, Tabernacle's gonna 
be there, and Mount Baker. Why, that's most men you're gonna see for a while, and they're all 
gonna be there. Got to get out and get there. Then you get to come back and go to BTU. And you 
get lunch food before you go and food when you get there, food all the way. I mean, you didn't 
have to worry about these things, you know. I don't know how the girls do it now, but, you 
know, we had a lot of fun and didn't have to spend too much money.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:49 
That must have been nice.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:51 
Well, the church elders got the food going, and these nice children come out to sing and lift their 
voices in the name of God. Make sure you eat, [?they can find you?]. [They laugh.] 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:03 
What, what-- Did, so do you think that was basically kind of how boys met the girls, and the 
boys kept up with the girls type of thing?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:03 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:08 
So instead of doing it outside of school, you guys did it-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:20 
More, it was incorporated in church, kind of. You had a reason to go to church. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:26 
Yeah, almost like-- oh, I can't think of the word I'm trying to think of.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:30 
It would be like, you know, going to school and being in a sorority and fraternity, and you get to 
have socials and you meet.  
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Antoinette Johnson  09:41 
Yeah, yeah, that's it. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:42 
Yeah. I married Jerome Butler. And John Smith, he used to be the admission director for Seattle 
Central Community College, that died.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:54 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:55 
His wife is singing-- No, she never sang in the choir. She was an usher type, and he sang in the 
choir at Mount Zion. Then I had a student the other day, Mrs. Gardner. I looked at that name, I 
said, "Gardner, that name is familiar." Why, her husband came with her, and no, for real, the idol 
of Mount, of Mount Zion's choir with that deep voice, Bill Gardner came in his self. I said, "My 
dear." Anyway, we chatted about that, and he wanted to know, "Was Jerome still singing?" And 
had I seen John Smith? And all those fellows have kept in touch. So that's pretty much-- Now, I 
don't know what the Catholic girls did, but they'd come visit the Baptist church every now and 
then. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  10:58 
Were you guys pretty, did you chum up with them or was it just---  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:02 
Not me. I was busy. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:05 
Did the classes divide then? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:07 
I don't know, because I was busy. Honey, I was real busy. By the time I met-- because I made all 
my clothes, I really did. And by the time I went to work and went to school, didn't have much 
time left. And went to choir rehearsal, and I guess I used to go to camp, too. For camp, 
[inaudible], I went to Camp Orkila, I think, one year to work. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:34 
What is it, was it a Christian camp? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:36 
YWCA-- YMCA camp that the YWCA and the other community organizations use. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:44 
So well, what were your interests during this time? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:50 
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You mean, while I was in high school? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:52 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:53 
In terms of job, sports-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:58 
All of it. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:59 
I did it all, I can't complain. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:03 
Did you just see something and like it and say, hey, you know? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:07 
You know, unfortunately, my attitudes have been, try it, see if you like it, give it a, give it a try. 
It's just the way I kind of feel about things, you have to give it a try. And why should you deny 
yourself? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:25 
Were you very athletic? Did you get into the sports, actual doing?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:31 
Only baseball and roller skating. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:36 
[Inaudible.] What was open for girls back then?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:40 
That's it. I guess they played a little basketball, but that, that was just too sweaty. [They laugh.] I, 
mm-mm, track, mm-mm. But I caught a track man, Jerome ran track. I think he has his letters in 
track. I think Victor has his too, but actually I think [?I can catch him too?], running around the 
block. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:08 
So you, you knew Jerome from, even from junior high school? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:12 
No, high school.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:15 
Oh, high school.  
 
Page 8 of 16 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:17 
Well, you know, I might have known him from junior high school because we're-- no. Was Rudy 
one of his friends? You don't know. Well, when I used to go see Lucy, Lucy had a brother and a 
sister, and Lucy's brother, Junior Townsend, had an awful lot of fellas down there, you know, 
and Ruby and Lucy and I were upstairs giggling. So, and then I come to find out later years, 
Jerome was one of the fellas who was downstairs giggling. So, you know. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:58 
You had a focus, definitely, didn't you? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:01 
That's what I thought, what I saw is what I wanted, I really did. I don't think Jerome realized I 
had a focus that long.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:09 
Did you ever tell him?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:12 
Mm-hmm, I think I've told him. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:15 
What about, what expectations of-- What expectations did you have of yourself, maybe, back 
then? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:24 
I wanted an office job, I really did.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:25 
Were you college minded? Did you think about college and-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:32 
Did I think about it? Mother May said you, "Are you going to be a nurse or teacher or," I don't 
know what the other one was, but it was clear that you were supposed to do something like that. 
Mildred, Stanley, all of those people, all of them, I mean, that, that was the expectation. I don't 
think I had time to think about it.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:57 
So that was something you just had--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:59 
I was supposed to do, and I feel good that I got it done. Even though it was later, well, I felt 
good. I mean, I really felt obligated, beyond my grandma's death, that was something-- Even 
Grandma Johnson used to talk about, "You are going to college." 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:59 
Did any of them die during the time you were in school? Did you, any of your grandparents? 
Page 9 of 16 
 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:15 
Grandma Johnson did. Because I went to community college until, she gra-- Did she die in '76? 
Grandma Johnson? Grandma Johnson, my father, and [?Roland?] all died-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:43 
Is that Maude Alice?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:46 
Yeah. In '79, '78, and '76. But I still went on with school, but I had to deal with those deaths. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:02 
Do you think that, during that time, was the expectations different? The expectations that your 
parents placed on you, were they any, were they different from the other girls in the house, or, or 
even the boys?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:19 
How do you mean? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:24 
Were the boys expected, expected to graduate and go to college-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:31 
You mean for the family? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:31 
Uh-huh, as a whole, were the boys expected to graduate and go to college? Or did it matter? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:31 
Yeah, yeah. But I was the only girl originally, and when I went to live with Lenear and Stanley, 
they expected everybody to go to college.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:36 
Okay, so it was just--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:38 
Stanley only went for one year, though, because his father had already died. Stanley died, 
Stanley Payne died somewhere around there, in the '70s. Did Mrs. Bernard tell you when he 
died? We didn't ask, did we?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:56 
[Reading] Victor Payne, Stanley-- No, she didn't say. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:00 
We'll have to ask her because he died of cancer, and it was somewhere in the '70s, I do believe. 
Because see, Stanley was entitled for the GI Bill, or something like that, to go to college, and so 
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he went to Western, either for a year or a year and a half. So yeah, in, going to college was 
expected. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:34 
Okay, how about, how about courtship? Dating and courtship, we talked about this-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:41 
Well, how did this happen? How many boyfriends did I have? You know, I did have a young 
boyfriend, because I remember Curtis Jackson was one of my first beaus. He went to Catholic 
school. And after Curtis was, well, you know, I did get to date John [inaudible]. And who else? 
Wasn't that many fellows coming knocking on the door to take you out to, you know, I mean, 
real, formal dates, just the three of those.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:22 
But did they have to be introduced to your parents?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:26 
And ask, "May I take?" Yeah, you did a formal courtship.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:31 
Yeah. None of the funny stuff.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:35 
Well, yeah, the funny stuff was there too.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:37 
Okay, where there diff-- were, were-- What kind, were the disagreements with your guardians or 
parents?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:50 
About the, the boyfriends?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:52 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:53 
Oh, yeah. I can remember somebody used to come by and my uncle said, "Why are you going 
out with him? Child never wears slacks when he comes to call." That was the problem, I can't 
remember who that was. But now that you bring that up, there was one West Indian young man 
that came to date, and I didn't like him. His name was Noel, and he'd wear that stiff white shirt, I 
could not care for him, was not interesting. I was interested in American young men. I mean, he 
was from the, from the islands, but no hit, no hit. Nice courtship. Went to dinner or he came over 
for dinner twice. Was not what I had in mind. I don't think I was what he had in mind either. 
That didn't go over too good. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:59 
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Did your aunt and uncle like him? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:02 
Well, it was kind of a lukewarm-- It was, it was an awkward situation. I'm trying to think of, how 
did we get to meet this woman that brought this young man by? It escapes me at the moment, but 
he was somewhere there in the maze. Oh, I know, he was here visiting to go to school, that's it. 
And he was gonna go to Seattle U and I was glad, because I thought I was too young for him. He 
was almost like an old man, going to college and I was in high school. Who [inaudible] old man 
like that, all stiff and everything, mm-mm. But he was a nice person, but that wasn't for me.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:48 
So if they said, "No," and, but, and you said, "Yes," then what, I mean, what happened? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:53 
I married Jerome Butler and called them up and told them, so that's what happened. That's how 
that was.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:59 
Did you ever get on restriction or anything?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:04 
Restriction? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:05 
Restriction, I mean, like, grounded? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:06 
Oh yeah, I tried smoking, and it cost me seven weeks in the doghouse. Only place you could go 
was church and home and school and home. That's terrible, girl.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:18 
Was it?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:18 
Yeah, just terrible. I guess it was for me, because I like to go. When I had gotten in the habit of 
going, I mean, I'd make it to church. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:30 
So you did, you really didn't stay in a lot of trouble in your teens, did you? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:38 
Well, wasn't too many places to go in between. And one of the things you learn early, if you 
want to be free, you need to be involved so you can be free in what you're doing. If you're doing 
something and you're not happy, then get out of it. Get into something that's going to be more 
rewarding for you as a person. 
 
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Antoinette Johnson  22:01 
Who disciplined you during this time?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:05 
My aunt and uncle.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:06 
So, both of them probably shared equal? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:09 
Yeah. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:10 
Nobody was the heavy? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:13 
You know, the heavy had already been done, the seeds had been planted. You know, people be 
talking about their reprimanding kids that are adolescents. You're not supposed to have to do 
that. [?Once you say?], put the fair God in you, well shoot. By the time you get to the age that 
you realize what the fair God is like, your breath is gone. You know, you're not going to be 
talking no more. So, you already knew where the parameters and the boundaries were, you might 
as well just go ahead and stay within them until you get ready to do your thing under your own 
roof. Yep, under your own roof. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:00 
Was, how did they feel about-- Or what, what type of contraceptive devices did they have back 
then? Or did they just tell you guys to abstain? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:11 
Abstain was real good, cross your legs and keep your dress down.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:14 
And did they make a point of just [?brief?], you know-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:18 
And stay out of the backseat of cars too. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:22 
So they didn't, there was no, "Hey, let's go get birth control pills," or nothing like that?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:26 
Are you crazy? No.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:30 
They didn't play that?  
 
Page 13 of 16 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:33 
No. Girls learned how to have abortions, self-done.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:38 
How did they learn that though? Who taught, I mean, if you were-- Back then-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:43 
You'd be courageous and go do your own coat hanger thing, because you certainly weren't gonna 
go tell somebody else, unless you had an awful good friend to help you. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:56 
Must have been painful. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:58 
Painful, it was frightening. Now think about this, you're scared to tell your mom, you're scared to 
tell your daddy, you tell your best friend, and hope it was a success. And a lot of times-- I think 
somebody had a baby in the bathroom. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:15 
Did your knowledge of these things at that time keep you from getting pregnant, do you think? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:26 
No, I don't think so.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:25 
Or you just said, "Hey, you know, this is not what I want right now, so I'm not gonna do it?" 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:29 
No, I think folks was trying out these things. Yes, I think so. I think they still did all the things 
that people do today, except that, you know, you think you have something going with birth 
control and rubbers and all that. These girls just kept on running until they, the fellows say, 
"Yeah, let's get married." And it was such a disgrace not to be married, they usually would go 
along with getting married. Might get divorced thereafter, but. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:28 
[?Would you still have married?]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:28 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:44 
What, what age did they consider good for, or appropriate, for having sex or getting married? Or 
did the age matter, was it just whether you were married or not? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:22 
Page 14 of 16 
 
You know, I still haven't figured out the appropriate age. I mean, because I was young when I 
got married. But then on the side of, I finished high school, kind of, that's an appropriate age, I 
guess. At least then to have finished high school was, that you got your education out of the way. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:43 
You think your values are pretty well grounded? I mean, they were already set by the time you 
got into high school. Or established anyway. Or did you create your own? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:00 
Well, I don't think I created mine. I really don't. I think that, as we've talked today that you can 
see that the old folks made it very clear. You know, and you kind of went humdrum along that 
way. And as we review this today, it makes it very clear for those who had gotten a lot of mixed 
messages to be dysfunctional as they are. You know, you kind of get that understanding, we're 
supposed to be on the straight and narrow, when I was coming up. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:34 
Yeah. Do you think that a lot of that was due to class type, though? Because what do you 
remember about people who may, you may have considered lower income or who were poor? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:52 
Some of them talked about going to college, but mostly it was parents who had been there or 
who were looking for those kind of horizons to instill that. I don't know that I disliked or didn't 
associate, associate with the kids down the block, it's just that my parents would say, "Don't do 
that." But, you know, being an only child, you wanted somebody to play with. And a lot of them 
had sisters they had to take care of, or brothers. And I'd go down and help them do their 
housework so we can go play. I mean, what work did I have to do? And so, you know, this is 
why I said, I had to hurry up and get home, I had to learn how to tell time so I wouldn't be late. 
But I'd go play with those guys, they looked like they were having fun. They had people they had 
to take care of, and dishes to wash, and boxes standing on to wash the dishes. So, you know, the 
poor girl looked like she had a lot to do. And I guess I just had friends that had those things to 
do. But I better not be caught down there. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:03 
Caught by, caught by your aunt and uncle? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:08 
Kinda. Yeah, like they told me not to go that far down the block. Or, "Who is she, who's her 
mother, who's her father"-- She didn't have a father, now that I think about it, probably with 
mom. You know, and she had her little sister and little brother. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:27 
And how'd they feel about that? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:29 
I don't think we discussed that. I don't think I ever told her-- Well, she had to stay in to take, I'd 
just say I was gonna play. If they asked me where it was at, tell them I was down there playing 
Page 15 of 16 
 
with Suzie Q. But I don't think we really discussed that that person had somebody else to take 
care of. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:47 
When you got older, like in high school, did they ever tell you, "Well, we don't want you, you 
hanging out with," you know, "Ginger or whoever, because she's," you know?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:59 
No, I didn't think I had so much that problem. It was more, "Leave those boys alone."  
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:05 
So it really wasn't the girls, it was the boys. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:08 
But then I had more male friends than I had female friends. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:17 
What about, oh, you know I was going to ask you, did, were you ever introduced to any type of 
violence? Gang violence or neighborhood violence?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:25 
Only that one girl who got her clothes ripped off of her. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:32 
So really, in the neighborhoods that you guys were raised, and you, you know, you know how 
you hear about how Seattle is today, stuff like that.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:39 
It's getting to be a New York, New York. If you go down in the subways, you're subject to get 
whipped. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:44 
So, so when you moved up here, you really, you left that when you moved up here? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:49 
Well, back then it wasn't like that. But when I went back to New York in '50-- When did Doris 
die? I think about two, two years before. Because I got to see her before she died, and I just 
couldn't quite bring myself to the subways. I never did take the subway anymore, just the buses. 
Because on the West Coast, we had heard so many bad things about the bombs and, and the 
looting, and the robbing, and I really wasn't interested. So, I was content to be on the bus. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:26 
How much of what you wanted to do, or your maybe your attitude, did the media, you know-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:37 
Affect? 
Page 16 of 16 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:38 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:39 
Here in Seattle? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:40 
Yeah. How much attention did you guys pay to the news and newspapers and magazines and 
stuff like that?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:48 
Well, you know, I think about the time that black power and green power were having a 
conversation in the media. I remember telling a lady by the name of Mrs. Myers, and she was 
teaching early childhood education, and she made this scenario about that, you see, black people 
are just now finding out about their heritage, and I want-- [recording ends]. 